1 February 2010
DAFF10/188T
STEVE LIEBMANN: It's being suggested that busloads of farmers are going to converge on Canberra tomorrow and they're going to be pushing for constitutional change to shore up their rights to compensation if governments restrict the use of their land or water. Farmers say they've been short-changed when their property rights are curbed by state laws.
Now, you may remember this issue was in fact highlighted, if you like, about a fortnight ago when Southern Tablelands grazier, Peter Spencer, ended a 52-day hunger strike in the Monaro on his property, a little place outside of Cooma called Shannons Flat.
Joining me on the line now is the Federal Agricultural Minister, Tony Burke.
Minister Burke, good morning to you.
TONY BURKE: G'day, Steve.
LIEBMANN: Now, you're not going to become involved, or you're not going to support this protest tomorrow, right?
TONY BURKE: I think it's a legitimate issue for farmers to want to come and protest about whatever issue they want, and the land clearing issue is one that they've been raising with me for as long as I've had this job and they've been raising with other ministers for more than a decade. But there's one particular problem I've got with this protest, and that is that they've directly linked the protest to Peter Spencer's actions of self-harm.
Now, I don't want Australia to be the sort of country where hurting yourself becomes the way to get the ear of government. I think it's the wrong thing for politicians to get involved on the back of an incident of self-harm.
As I travel around the bush, I hear too many stories of farmers hurting themselves, sometimes in the most shocking way. And the one thing I don't think we should ever do when someone's hurting themselves is tell them they're a hero.
LIEBMANN: And yet he and those who support him are saying that there is increasing government control over what farmers can and can't do with their land. Do you recognise that as a legitimate grievance?
TONY BURKE: These issues they're raising about what happened more than a decade ago, and the wounds are still very raw for many farmers.
Particularly in New South Wales and Queensland - I have this raised with me a lot when I'm out in the paddock talking to farmers. And the way they describe it is this, that they thought they had an asset on their land, and overnight they discovered they had a liability. Now, that's how they put it.
There's a limited way in which our government for the first time has started to try to take account of that. What we've done is we're now running some pilots in areas called box gum woodlands, high environmental value areas where we're now paying the farmers in a pilot way - I'm not going to pretend this is a solution to everything - but we're paying those farmers for the environmental work that they do on their land.
So there's a limited way in which we're now trialling new ways of acknowledging the environmental work that farmers do. But there's no doubt that for a very long time farmers have felt that they had the regulation put on them and no one was really acknowledging that they were undergoing any hardship at all.
LIEBMANN: So are you going to meet? Are you prepared to meet those who've organised tomorrow's protest rally?
TONY BURKE: Oh Steve, on Thursday I picked up the phone to Charlie Armstrong - he's the president of the New South Wales Farmers' Association that's organising the rally. I said to him, Charlie, as you know, my door's always open; I don't think you should have associated the rally with an action of self-harm. For that reason, I can't have anything to do with the protest itself, but once it's over on Tuesday afternoon, come into my office, let's have a talk again, let's keep working through these issues.
LIEBMANN: Do you support an inquiry?
TONY BURKE: Oh, whether there's a senate inquiry or not, it will be a matter for the Senate. I've got to say, Steve, members of the House of Representatives telling the Senate what to do doesn't tend to get you very far. So the Senate will make up its own mind about inquiries.
The issue's been around for a very long time, a long time before we came to office. It's more than a decade ago that these changes occurred. But I just think it's a conversation that's important to have. The stewardship payments we're trialling might provide part of the way.
But no matter what, I believe politicians have to be responsible and draw an absolute line that you don't - we are not the sort of country where you increase the ear of government by hurting yourself.
LIEBMANN: Look, let me drop this on you, and feel free, because I'm throwing it at you from left field.
TONY BURKE: Yes.
LIEBMANN: I'm getting calls now from farmers who have a point to make. Are you prepared to take any calls from them now, or would you rather leave that until after tomorrow's rally?
TONY BURKE: Oh no, Steve, I've - these are conversations that I've had on paddocks with farmers on many occasions, at conferences with farmers. And if you want to have a chat on your program, I'm on for that, too.
LIEBMANN: All right. Well look, let me take a break and we'll come back and I'll just take a couple of calls at random and put them through to you.
TONY BURKE: No worries.
LIEBMANN: Just stand by. Federal Agricultural - very obliging minister this man, always accessible. Federal Agricultural Minister, Tony Burke, will be back to take some of your calls from those of you listening throughout our vast network, right after this.
*Ad Break*
LIEBMANN: Now, this wasn't planned, but on the line from Canberra is the Federal Agricultural Minister, Tony Burke, who, as I've said, is always accessible and very obliging. And we've been talking about this farmers' protest to take place in Canberra tomorrow, a protest where farmers are pushing for constitutional change to shore up their rights to compensation. And the minister's agreed to take just a couple of calls because he's pushing it for time, and so are we.
Rob, you've got question for the minister? He's listening.
CALLER ROSS: It's Ross.
LIEBMANN: Ross, I'm sorry.
CALLER ROSS: Sorry, Steve. I'm just absolutely in… [line cuts out].
LIEBMANN: I'm sorry. Minister, are you there? That was my fault. Are you there, Ross?
CALLER ROSS: Yeah.
TONY BURKE: Yeah, I'm here too.
LIEBMANN: Okay. The minister's listening, Ross.
CALLER ROSS: Okay. I'm absolutely incensed at what the minister said previously that he's been to the country and seen it first-hand and heard the news of farmers suiciding. But what's he done about it? You know, he just - oh, he just sort of brushed it aside. Surely he could see that there's something wrong, and yet he's done nothing about it.
I mean, when you look at it, you know, police aren't health workers, but how many times are they called upon to deal with mentally challenged people? Police don't say, oh, you know, this is a bit rough for us, we won't handle that.
LIEBMANN: All right. Okay, let's give the minister the right of reply. Minister Burke.
TONY BURKE: The point that Ross makes in terms of the devastation in the bush with the number of counts of suicide is something that I've tried to dedicate myself very passionately to try to do something about.
One of the - let's not pretend that there's just, you know, one issue involved with suicide; there's a whole lot. Some of it's connected to drought, some of it connected to isolation, some of it connected to the prices that farmers are given as price takers. There's a whole host of reasons that can go into them.
We've been working through a way of trying to change the way we give drought support into the future. One of the things we do at the moment - and I really think it's the wrong way to go, and we're only a few weeks, hopefully, from being able to announce a change into the future. At the moment, we wait for people to hit crisis, and then when they're right at the situation of almost having to leave the farm, we give them just enough money to press the pause button and stay at that sort of financial situation maybe for seven or eight years.
Now, I can't see how that's anything other than part of the problem for people.
LIEBMANN: Okay.
TONY BURKE: What we're trying to do is find a way of moving to helping people prepare, make better decisions with a bit of government investment, helping them prepare into the future so the next time we hit a drought like this one, fewer people ever hit that crisis point.
LIEBMANN: Right. Okay, one last call because I know you're pushing it for time, Mr Burke, and so are we.
Doug, good morning to you.
CALLER DOUG: Morning, Steve, thanks for taking my call.
LIEBMANN: Pleasure. The minister's listening.
TONY BURKE: G'day, Doug.
CALLER DOUG: Minister, I was wondering, do you or your government feel an obligation to pay the farmers who hold the carbon for the carbon that your government is receiving benefit for?
LIEBMANN: Okay, there's your question. Here's your answer.
TONY BURKE: One of the things that was part of the package that went through at the end of the year through the house - well, approved by the House of Representatives but ended up being knocked back in the Senate when all those amendments went through but then the vote went down, was to actually have a system where farmers would be paid for the carbon that they put into their soils.
Now, unfortunately, to have the House of Reps agreeing with it, and you need to get it through the Senate as well, so that proposal fell over. But our government policy is to have a system that allows those sorts of credits for farmers. And at the moment, the Senate's blocking that.
LIEBMANN: Okay, Minister Burke, I really appreciate your time because, as I said to you, we were just dropping that on you out of the blue. Thank you for taking those calls.
TONY BURKE: Good to talk to you, Steve.
LIEBMANN: Federal Agricultural Minister, Tony Burke.